Is Backpacking a Sustainable Lifestyle? The Truth About Long-Term Travel
Can you really travel forever? As Alun prepares for another adventure, we dive into the truth about long-term travel. In an episode inspired by a listener's curious questions, we define what 'long-term travel' really means, discuss backpacking burnout, and ask the question every traveller faces: is backpacking a sustainable lifestyle? With a combined 20 years abroad, things are about to get existential, baby!
Plus, Tales of a Trip returns with a travel story involving South Korean bagels. Allow this full circle moment (that's a bagel joke) to warm your hearts and fill your stomachs.
Submit your travel stories here: https://www.tripologypodcast.com/talesofatrip
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Intro
02:54 - Alun's tricky travel position
03:41 - Hostel Common Room: Can you really travel forever?
25:21 - Tales of a Trip: Bagel wars in Seoul, South Korea
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TRANSCRIPT:
Alun:
[0:02] Hello, and welcome to this episode of Tripology, the only travel podcast where neither of the hosts have a permanent address. I'm Alun, and I'm here with my best friend, one of the greatest travellers of all time. It's the ever, a ruciform, Adam.
Adam:
[0:18] A ruciform, a ruciform, a ruciform. God, I think I've seen that word written down. Does it start with an E?
Alun:
[0:24] I've got to be honest with you, Adam, it does start with an E, and I panicked. I didn't think of an adjective in time, so I just went with one of my favorite words. A ruciform. It means, funnily enough, possessed of the qualities of a caterpillar. Caterpillar-like. And whilst I don't think of you necessarily as being sort of a wormy creature, I do think of you as something and someone with the potential to get yourself in a chrysalis and become something so much more beautiful than you were before. So in that sense, you are a ruciform.
Adam:
[0:54] Nice. Turn into a butterfly, I mean, I sort of have a glow up. I have had a haircut, actually. You'll be pleased to know for the first time in a very long time. It's pretty easy to go without a haircut when it costs $60 to $70.
Alun:
[1:05] Very difficult to get haircuts in general whilst you're traveling because you're all out of sorts. You struggle to find a barber who knows what they're doing, speaks English, and it's quite a scary experience. I often go into a barber and sort of panic, end up showing them a picture of Lionel Messi and then running out crying.
Adam:
[1:25] You've been told a few times that you look like messi haven't you.
Alun:
[1:28] Yeah more than i think is allowed to not be hurtful i'm not saying there's anything wrong with messi but he is someone who's known primarily for being short and i of course am bang on average height yeah.
Adam:
[1:42] I think he's known primarily for being potentially the best footballer in the history of the game.
Alun:
[1:46] Yeah but not not tall and good at football, like Ronaldo.
Adam:
[1:53] No you've never thought about going into a barber shop with a picture of ronaldo and saying one of those please give.
Alun:
[1:58] Me the ronaldo please and yeah no because i don't want to be on a news network
Travel and Haircuts
Alun:
[2:02] like messi asks for ronaldo.
Adam:
[2:04] Just trying to bring it back to travel for a second we often get asked about industries that you can work in job job roles that facilitate travel and i think being a barber is a bloody good one isn't.
Alun:
[2:18] It yeah it's a really good one i of course famously took to cutting hair in our hostel in Mumbai. I had just one client, you, and I thought I did quite a good job.
Adam:
[2:29] I think you did a very good job. Does that reel still exist somewhere on Instagram? I think we put up.
Alun:
[2:34] On Instagram, there's a link in the description. If you want to see me cut Adam's hair, you might have to scroll back a fair way. Part of the reason I described you as a russiform, Adam, is because I've been thinking about the sort of chrysalis nature of travel and how it allows you to become something more than that which you first were and I was thinking I'm in a unique situation at the moment mate because I'm about to set off on another big trip and I'm in that beautiful ensconcing vibe where you're with family I've just had Christmas time with family it's hard to pull yourself away from that ensconcement and go you On this day, I'm going traveling. I've got to go away. I love you, family, but I've got a mission. I'm going to go off to a new place. I think that's really, really difficult to do. And I was pondering that and thinking about it as I scrolled the Tropology email inbox. And I found an email in there that resonated with me because I dealt with some of the questions that I myself was thinking about on the time.
The Hostel Common Room
Alun:
[3:35] And I think I would like you to read it. It's a place that we like to call Hostel Common Room.
Tales of a Trip:
[3:43] Hostel Common Room Family.
Alun:
[3:49] Here we are, Adam, in the Hostel Common Room. It's a space where listeners, they can go to www.tropologypodcast.com forward slash Hostel Common Room, or they can send us an email, www.tropologypodcast.gmail.com, and we will reply, basically. Ask us any question you want. It can be a question as simple as, do you think sunglasses are an important item to travel with, or is it hard to leave all your friends and get a proper job in a.
Adam:
[4:19] Bank yeah it can be either of those questions if that's something you've thought about uh something you're wondering the barrier maybe uh to you leaving and traveling the world doing possibly the best thing there is to do if uh if you want to know how it's done then pop us a little email into the inbox like this listener has I'm going to read out the email now and we're going to dissect it analyze it go through it answer it uh and hopefully have a little bit of fun as well so it is from a lovely listener called Justin Justin says hey you guys post pretty much a hundred percent of how I feel about traveling and if I wanted to share a message with the world I'd say what you guys say isn't that bloody touching mate that really is we.
Justin's Travel Questions
Alun:
[5:05] Love to hear it.
Adam:
[5:05] That is it's so wonderful um Justin says I travelled abroad for 8 months last year and I got so exhausted and depressed and it was just so hard to be gone for so long, I have a couple of questions, I am curious what do you define as long term travel? Is the lifestyle sustainable indefinitely? And can someone go from country to country, not see their family or friends or have a routine and still enjoy the travel experience? Cheers, Justin.
Alun:
[5:33] Justin, you beautiful topologist. Thank you so much for emailing. This email hit me right in the proverbial feels because...
Adam:
[5:45] You love it. You love it.
Alun:
[5:47] It resonated with me, mate, because firstly, he says that he was traveling and he was suffering from some depression and was lonely and it was hard. And I think that's something that all of us who have traveled long term can empathize with to some extent. It's so easy to look at travel as this sexy waterfall swimming with people in bikinis on boats and drinking alcohol on beaches and think, God, that's the greatest thing in the world. But of course, we are all human beings. And a lot of us travel fundamentally, because we're trying to escape ourselves in some way. I think that's like an actual thing that happens that people don't talk about. The problem is with that you are always going to be wherever you travel to and at some point you've got to deal with yourself I know for the first four years that I was traveling I was zipping around constantly and in some small way it was because I didn't know what else I would do like who am I if not traveling what would I do if I stopped traveling would I then have to deal with my relationship with my family?
The Challenges of Long-Term Travel
Alun:
[6:55] Would I then have to deal with my relationship with myself working nine to five in a rigid job? Those things scared me and so I kept on traveling. I became a long-term traveler and in many ways.
Alun:
[7:09] It was only after I forced myself to deal with those things outside of the context of travel that I was able to truly and thoroughly enjoy traveling for what it was. Now I'm still a long-term traveler, but I'm traveling in a much healthier, better way because I had to take stock and deal with those other things that I was definitely running away from, cliche though it may be. So I think that's why the email got me right in the feel pipe.
Adam:
[7:38] Yeah i mean obviously obviously i couldn't have said it better myself um you touched on loads of points there mate i also think that it's probably important to add that a lot of anxieties can develop whilst you're traveling as well if you set yourself a target of being away for six months and after four or let's say maybe a better example is a year and then after eight months or nine months you're feeling really down you'd like to go home but you had this idea in your head that you wanted to be away for a year even that tiny little thing in isolation amongst the the plethora the sea of other things you've got to deal with whilst whilst on the road can be something that you've you've got to deal with it's like pushing yourself on to do something that ultimately isn't giving you the joy you expected it to give you and.
Alun:
[8:21] I think to that point it's okay to feel anxious what's not okay is running away from that anxiety not dealing with it and just plastering over it with ever escalating more amazing experiences. Because, you know, I was anxious and had some depression issues, mental health issues whilst I was traveling. And to some extent, you can keep them at bay by going to Petra and seeing like the pyramids and then going and seeing a safari in the Maasai Mara and then going to South America. Oh my God, there's Machu Picchu. I'm doing fine. You know, to some extent, you can paper over things by just escalating those experiences. But I think at some point, maybe it's good to look at fundamentally what's causing those anxieties and mental health issues.
Alun:
[9:06] Justin asked... Constitutes long-term travel. And I think of what constitutes long-term travel is intention. Is it your intention to go away for a finite period of time or is your intention to travel and keep on traveling? And I think that I'm obviously a huge fan of long-term travel, the idea of going away, one way ticket, but I do think it's somewhat dangerous. And it's dangerous for this reason if your intention is to travel and make that your sole aim you're traveling for travel's sake but you're not using that space to try and further yourself better yourself get some skills analyze your own mind like why do I feel this way about this thing can I be a better person can I be less anxious be less depressed be happier if you're not actively using travel as a medium to get to that place, then you are doing the cliche thing of running away, just traveling, escalating your experience. And I don't think that's a good thing. I think that's a dangerous thing to do. It's very, very easy to run away in the context of travel. And I think that if you commit to long-term traveling, you actually kind of need to make it a mission to use it for good within yourself.
Adam:
[10:28] Yeah, I think long-term travel, I mean, There's a few ways that we can probably cut it. Intention is definitely one, but it almost touches on this tourist versus backpacker or traveller type argument, this age-old debate that we've spoken about on the show before.
Defining Long-Term Travel
Adam:
[10:43] For me, long-term travel is a nice little phrase that I like to use to describe myself and you, obviously. And it is something...
Adam:
[10:55] That to me means you know i've been away it's a bit of a milestone for me actually just a couple of weeks ago mate mid-december i hit my 11th year away on the road living abroad living in other countries and you know if if what we mean by long-term travel is backpacking sort of traveling intensely week after week year year after year that's only not i would love to do that but i don't necessarily know whether that's sustainable or whether i'd even enjoy it because i just don't have the money to support that lifestyle so i have to use things like working holiday visas or volunteer programs um in order to generate a little bit more money lay low for a few weeks or a month uh or sorry even longer than that a year in some working holiday visa cases um top the old funds back up and i kind of i wouldn't say i see it as traveling but living abroad maybe fits within the broader topic of travel and is now i mean you've you kind of touched on this already it's almost become part of my identity which which again probably forms part of the mental health thing when i go home i'm known as the guy who travels and lives around the world so now if i stopped doing that i'd almost be like but that that is you that is part of you now you kind of have to meet those expectations.
Alun:
[12:18] Yeah. And I think there's issues with that as well. I totally understand what you mean. And I, as you know, in myself, I identify so strongly with the identity of traveler that it would feel like I'd lost so much of myself if I were to cease traveling. But that's complicated because you're, you're basically, you have this, identity which is exogenous to yourself it comes from something you do the same way as um someone who i look a little bit like lionel messi i'm sure he identifies with being a footballer but he can't foot balls forever and when he stops doing that you know what will he have lost then he becomes a physical representation of that which he once was just.
Adam:
[13:01] A short person.
Alun:
[13:02] Yeah he's just a just.
Adam:
[13:03] A short person who looks a bit like you.
Alun:
[13:06] So, you know, when we stop traveling or if we stop traveling, if we settle down, that will feel fundamentally like such a huge loss. You know, I'm comparing us as travelers to Messi as a footballer. But fundamentally, that's something that you kind of have to deal with because, you know, there will be a time where I want to stop traveling in the way that I'm traveling or the way that I'm traveling will change. And because of that, I kind of have to identify with the things that travel has taught me to be as opposed to the travel itself. Travel's taught me to be a more tolerant person, a more patient person, someone who's adventurous, someone who's a good friend. And those are qualities which can persist without the medium of travel.
Sustainable Travel Lifestyle
Alun:
[13:52] And those are the things I'm trying to identify with more.
Adam:
[13:55] Yeah. I mean, just to sort of pick up on Justin's second question, which is, is the lifestyle sustainable indefinitely something i've thought about but never maybe mentioned it on the show or even to you really um is that i guess society you know we live in this in this society most of us probably a lot of people listening to the show where it is pretty normal to reach let's say your late 20s or mid 30s and have a family and then maybe a pet and you know you get a house or an apartment whatever you just things become sort of more stable more.
Adam:
[14:32] Predictable and you stay in one location for a very long time, even people who have been travelling tend to do that, But I've always been working towards, I didn't know the exact age, but let's say it was initially my late 20s or then it became my mid 30s. Now I'm 36. Now it's kind of like I'm pushing it far away to my early 40s, let's say. But it's this invisible, it just doesn't exist. It's like a ceiling that I'm working towards. And it does involve getting married. It does involve having children. And they're just an idea that was almost limiting what I thought was possible. And I'm not saying that with kids you can't travel or with a partner or, you know, you get married. I'm not saying that you can't travel in that way with those people. Of course you can. It's absolutely possible, even with a pet if you want to. But for me, I had this ceiling, this limit, if you like. And then in my early 30s, I broke through that. And I thought to myself, but you don't know if you're going to get married. And you don't know if you're going to have children. And then all of a sudden, it felt like a weight lifted off my shoulders. And the whole world opened up again and I thought maybe I could just do this forever maybe it really is possible.
Alun:
[15:44] Yeah limitations are really just a matter of perspective aren't they and often they're self-applied I think that whether whether travel can be done indefinitely as a lifestyle really depends on the way you're doing it, And your perspective about yourself and your expectations, of course, if you have expectations of a family and a settled life, then at some point that's going to get in the way of travel. And indeed, if you have no expectations at all of yourself and you're just traveling for the sake of traveling, I think you're going to burn out pretty quick. I don't think either of those are sustainable. I think that it only becomes a sustainable option if you're traveling with intention to try and grow into something and you're using it. And you cut yourself some slack right? There was a time, I'm going to Japan for a year in 2026, from April to April, 2026 to 2027, and I'm excited about it very much. But there was a time where I would have seen that year-long visa as an irrefutable, indefinite challenge and a sentencing to like, you will be in Japan for that year and you've got to like build your life from scratch. Whereas now I'm in a place where if I don't like Japan if I'm not having a good time there I'll do something else.
Alun:
[17:03] I'm no longer burdened by the need to just be traveling for traveling's sake. Now I'm more about having a good time, connecting with people, keeping my friends close, learning, having family. And I'm sure I will be in Japan for a year because I'm sure I'll love it. But it's no longer this question of like, I'm going to go for four years without going home once because then I've done that. And that's been a challenge that I can tell people about. It just doesn't interest me anymore. What interests me is a varied diet. And by that, I mean a combination of wonderful experiences and some comforts and close family and friends and living as healthily with as much vitality as I can.
Family and Connections
Alun:
[17:49] And for me, travel is an intrinsic part of that. And that is sustainable.
Adam:
[17:53] Yeah, I think that kind of answers the third part of Justin's question as well then, because I'll just read it again. Can someone go from country to country, not see family and friends or have a routine and still enjoy the travel experience? From my answer to that would be, depending on how long you're talking about, I don't know why you would. I don't know why you would do that. Me, for very personal reasons, I like to stay in one place for a long time. I like to build community. I like to have a routine. I do think that there might be certain people out there that are interested in doing that sort of thing. Maybe they have the funds to be able to do it. Maybe they, I mean, even if work's involved and they don't work for themselves, we are creatures that build routines or like patterns and like following them. So I don't know how many of those people exist, just constantly traveling for years on end, going from country to country without them coming up with a business idea or without them, you know, joining a program. I do think that the vast majority of people would reach a point where they said to themselves, why haven't I seen my family and friends for such a long time?
Alun:
[19:01] It was this question that made me want to devote a whole episode of Tripology to this email, because I've been thinking about this an awful lot. And don't get me wrong, when I went away for those four years, and I didn't see any of my friends or family for those four years, I was just traveling. I had a good time. I learned a lot about myself. But it wasn't sustainable and there was issues with it because I was just I was just going at the expense of everything else in my life and for me I almost wore it as a badge of honor in those four years talking in hostels and this is a little bit cringy now but I used to be like I don't miss home at all I don't miss my family or friends because I'm just doing this thing which is amazing I'm just traveling and I think it wasn't until I.
Alun:
[19:50] I really sought to address what it was I needed as nourishment for my soul, which it turns out was close connections with family and was close connections with friends. It wasn't until I took stock, came home for a little while, invested in those relationships, got to a place where there was an intersection between best friends and family in the sense that I consider my closest friends, part of my family. And now, importantly, I consider my family my closest friends. I love spending time with them. I really crave and look forward to the periods of time where I get to come home and spend time in that ensconcing family unit. That, for me, is as nourishing now as all the travel is. And I think getting to that place has been the single most important building block for me for long-term happiness. Getting to this place where I've just sorted out all of my relationships. And that for me was unfathomable back in 2015 where I felt like I'd got this cheat code for existence and I could just travel and that was it. And I never needed to deal with anything because there was a fascinating world
Balancing Travel and Relationships
Alun:
[21:07] out there that I could explore and be part of. That felt like gold, right?
Alun:
[21:14] And it turns out that the simple things are important too and i think really like travel has to be part of this balanced varied lifestyle that includes surrounding yourself with people that love you and that you love it's really really important.
Adam:
[21:32] So then the situation you're in at the moment with this japan visa the fact you're you've got 12 months that you can be there for you're going away on a on a trip i'm assuming it's going to start in the next couple of weeks maybe you'll hit a few places along the way. Are you celebrating that connection with your family and friends and that point that you've reached for what it is for now?
A Wild Encounter in London
Adam:
[21:51] Or has it actually impacted how you feel about going away again for such a long time?
Alun:
[21:55] That's a really interesting point. Here's how I feel about it. I basically feel like if I come back once a year and spend a month where I intensely hang out and live with the people that I love most. That kind of equates to seeing them much more than most people do if they live in the same country. You know how many people, their parents live somewhere in the UK, they do a job down in London, they'll see them for a couple of hours every weekend or maybe twice a week for a cup of coffee or even less than that. Maybe they'll see their families like once a month. If I come home once a year and spend a month with my family in that unit i think like i think that equates to more quality time it's.
Adam:
[22:43] Definitely what they call quality time.
Alun:
[22:44] Totally man and for me and then that's what works and then i'm sort of charged up and i go about my life and they go about theirs and we call and we have you know we have tools within the modern age that allow us to stay close i call my best friends you included like once a week I speak to my family and and for me that that's like a great balance and it means that I can do what I want to do in terms of travel and, but while still maintaining and nourishing those connections. So there's definitely ways to do it. And my heart, yeah, my heart went out to Justin when I read this email, because I think he's kind of like dealing with a lot of the things that I was dealing with when I first started traveling. And it just takes time to figure out. And it takes time where you're not judgmental to yourself. And it's part of getting older as well. You know, I was 21 when I started traveling. I was a kid. I had all this angst. I was like, you know, I finished university, fuck the government. And now I feel, you know, just far better and happier and more peaceful in a variety of aspects. And I think, Justin, I hope that this helps you to arrive at that same sort of space.
Adam:
[23:56] Yeah, I mean, certainly Justin mentioned that being away for eight months abroad was difficult and it did lead to depression. It doesn't mean that you aren't destined to travel for the rest of your life in whichever capacity you want to work it into your life in. It doesn't mean you're doing it the wrong way or anything like that. It's just things that maybe need sort of looking at. And yeah, thanks ever so much for writing in. Hit a spot with us that we've able uh been able to expand on and hopefully it helps and i mean on that note whenever you want to reach out flick us a message on instagram or send us another email whatever we're always open to to talking to people like you mate and um very very pleased that you that you took the time to write in.
Alun:
[24:40] Absolutely we love our community and there's a bunch of links down in the description or if you're listening on spotify something like you can click see more you see a list of all the links and important things because you know we are a travel community travelers gots to stick together with that in mind i think now would be a wonderful time because it's been a very serious very cerebral episode of tropology but it wouldn't be the greatest travel show on planet earth if we didn't hear some great travel stories let's listen to one from one of our listeners now they went to tropologypodcast.com forward slash tales of a trip and submitted three minutes of the greatest backpacking story that they've ever had let's listen to it starting now.
Tales of a Trip:
[25:22] Hey guys, my name's Steve. I wanted to call in with a favorite travel story of mine. Also think it's a good one for Tales of a Trip because it involves one of our very own award-winning tripology hosts, Adam. So a while back, I was headed to Seoul, South Korea for the first time. And I had remembered Adam talking a bit about his own trip there on a previous tripology episode. So I reached out to him for a couple of recommendations. He was super helpful, sent me a bunch of places to go, things to try. And one story in Seoul that I remember him talking about on the Tripology episode was about his experience at this place called London Bagel Company. Definitely a well-known place in Seoul, although it seemed that was mostly due to their marketing team and Koreans' trend-conscious culture versus the actual bagels themselves. Maybe they have great bagels. I'll probably never know. So anyways, you walk up to this London Bagel Company and you're greeted by an iPad, which requires you to enter your name, your email, and that puts you in a virtual queue. I put my name in and I'm number 6060.
Tales of a Trip:
[26:32] Obviously, I'm not waiting this long for a fucking bagel. Luckily, Adam had also recommended another bagel shop, which was across town and only about a 20 minute bus ride from where I was. So I figured I'd head there and could always come back if I got an email saying I had finally been chosen to order an LBC bagel. I hop on the bus, arrive to this quiet little alley and tucked away in the corner is this place called SF Bagels. Little storefront, couple of tables outside, and behind the counter is this sweetest Korean woman who turned out to be the owner. I tell her I found the place, how I bailed on London Bagel Company's hype parade, and how the host of this travel podcast, Dripology, had said her bagel was one of the best he'd ever had. Her whole face lights up with a smile ear to ear. I even pull up the episode on my phone and play the part where Adam talks about her shop. She was so excited. She wrote down the name of the podcast, the episode, said she was going to share it with all her friends and family.
Tales of a Trip:
[27:34] So yeah, just one of those simple, perfect travel moments that has really stuck with me. Little reminder of what I think travel is all about. Connecting with someone halfway around the world in this small, unexpected overlap in our lives. Felt human genuine honestly way more meaningful than any bagel or tote bag from london bagel company could have been no line no ipad no instagram influencers and the bagel incredible as was the scone so yeah if you're in soul check out sf bagels and if you want to hear adam's original story i think it's in one of the older episodes part of it goes into the patreon section Another great reason to subscribe. Anyway, that's my story. Love the show. Keep up the great work, guys.
Alun:
[28:20] Oh, Steve there. Thank you so much for that beautiful, beautiful travel story. Steve, of course, I happen to know, is a member of our wonderful Patreon community over on patreon.com. And as such, had direct access to the fountain of backpacking information that is the ever erusiform Adam there, giving him a bagel tip.
Adam:
[28:44] I just couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. That was, Steve, thanks ever so much, mate. That's awesome. Very, very cool. Loved the voice note, the story. You're not wrong at all. The other bagels aren't worth the wait, even if it's five minutes. But, yeah, I just, I'm kind of like lost for
words a little bit because it's really like touched me that even just influencing that one moment which is something that steve remembers as being so special i mean it transcends just buying a bagel in a shop doesn't it.
Alun:
[29:22] Yeah there was so much more.
Adam:
[29:24] Meaning behind it.
Alun:
[29:25] Well i like you're very good at giving advice i think i personally i'm also a member of our patreon community by the way and as such i often message adam and say you know i'm here what wine should i get oh I'm trying to impress this girl what should I say oh I've you know I hate myself tell me some nice things about myself you're very good at giving advice and you know particularly about travel and I you know what an absolute asset to the travel community you are and I'm so glad that you got to help Steve in that situation no.
Adam:
[30:02] No me too I mean in a in a really strange, I don't think I'm even always actively thinking about this or conscious of it, but I do eat a lot of food when I go out and usually like a lot of the same thing. So I can gauge things like quality and price and whatever. And maybe in the future, I like to fancy myself as someone who has explored a lot of the cafes and restaurants and, you know, the iconic must try foods in every town and city. Even to the point where my partner said the other day why don't you write about food like this should be your job it's all you talk about all you do um and yeah i guess um it's just something i i really enjoy and i love sharing so when someone says oh can you name a good coffee shop in auckland i'll say yeah there's five of them and this is why this is good this is why this is good try that sandwich in that one and you know ask for that in that one um you know the Wi-Fi is really strong or whatever. And yeah, I just love it. I mean, you did just say you're not very good at giving advice, I think.
Alun:
[31:12] I didn't actually. You said that just now.
Adam:
[31:19] No, I mean, I think it was implied because you said that I wasn't, you know, you left a space there, meaning that maybe you don't think you are. But I really do think you are because we've just listened to 30 minutes of you give a very sort of heartfelt and intelligent response to Justin's email. So, yeah, just rounding off about Steve's message there. It's it's I guess it kind of from one angle shows you how fucking hollow some eating experiences can be. And it's not just that can be extended into other areas of travel if you go to something you've seen on instagram like a destination or whatever or one location within a city if there's another thousand people there all with their phones out doing exactly the same thing you're gonna learn pretty quick it ain't gonna be great so um yeah hopefully you can sort of take take note from that the takeaway is maybe try not to go where all the other people go and um you'll have a much experience because of it.
Alun:
[32:14] And steve of course did the exact right thing if you do use a piece of advice gleamed from tropology to improve your backpacking experience you've got to go to patreon and you've got to show the person that's also affected the podcast i love that he showed that korean woman the podcast and said write down the name of this because it's advertising your bagels free of charge.
Adam:
[32:35] Baby right.
Alun:
[32:37] Now we are gonna end this episode but after the theme music if you're listening on Patreon, there'll be an extra 15 minutes where I'm going to talk about my courageous disarming of a homeless woman on the streets of London who was being
Reflections on the Experience
Alun:
[32:50] a little bit aggressive. So if you want to hear that story, head over to Patreon. Now though, we're going to take off and we'll see you next week.
Adam:
[32:58] We'll see you there. Bye.
