What is the Schengen Area? We discuss the European region and its member countries, our opinions on Brexit and how travel has been impacted, and the all important 90/180-day rule. If you're a Non-EU national and need information on travel restrictions in Europe, or if you're from the UK and miss the good ol' days of freely swanning around Europe, this one's for you!
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Intro
02:09 - Why We Wanted to Remain in the EU
05:57 - Travelling Europe After Brexit
08:39 - Schengen Explained: The 29 Member Countries
09:24 - The 90/180-Day Rule for British Travellers
10:09 - How Brexit Has Changed Travel for UK Citizens
14:00 - Alun's Unusual Obsession with Toilet Hygiene
17:43 - Should We Reconsider Brexit?
19:31 - Travelling Europe with a British vs Indian Passport
20:44 - Should There Be Different Passports for Different Travellers?
21:43 - The Problem with Democracy: Does Everyone's Vote Count Equally?
24:32 - The Illusion of Choice in Democratic Elections
25:50 - Why Are Travel Visas and Border Restrictions So Arbitrary?
27:25 - Britain's Colonial History and International Travel
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Welcome to Tripology
Alun:
[0:02] Hello, and welcome to this episode of Tripology. It's the only backpacking podcast where one of the hosts in Italy, one of the hosts in Japan, and by that very
Alun:
[0:12] nature, we're entirely unique. I'm Alan, and I'm here with my best friend. It's the ever Italian, Adam.
Adam:
[0:21] Buongiorno, buongiorno, va bene, va bene. Alan, I can't wait to discuss the topics that we're going to talk about today i'm still in italy would you believe it's been some weeks now and, i am getting a little bit nervous because i have been made aware that uk citizens are only allowed a certain number of days in the schengen area now you're very far away, So I'll be surprised if you care about this at all. But I do think that it's important to talk about stuff like this because we are, of course, a travel show.
Alun:
[0:53] I care about it, mate, because I care about you and I care about Brexit. Now, I voted in Brexit. I gave my brother my proxy vote. I gave him unlimited power.
Adam:
[1:07] Proxy bingo.
Alun:
[1:08] And I said, is that going to be a word throughout today's episode? no it's just because.
Adam:
[1:14] You say you say it a lot and.
Alun:
[1:17] Uh even.
Adam:
[1:17] On a couple of episodes ago you said by proxy by proxy i'm not sure i know what by proxy even means um.
Alun:
[1:24] Oh by proxy i do say a lot but.
Adam:
[1:27] I like it.
Alun:
[1:28] In this context it's definitely the correct term and it's a legal term it's called a proxy vote i said bro vote for me here is my vote take it out into the world and use it however i want, and it just so happened that politically me and my brother aligned and we both said let's stay in the eu mate let's stay right in it because of all the benefits of being in the eu does, i believe we were joined by the vast majority of people our age we was 26 at the time me and him and uh and we wanted to stay desperately in that old ref in that old referendum mate.
Adam:
[2:09] But was that because you had an understanding of what the eu meant for people like us because i i'll be honest i was living on a camel farm in the middle of the outback in australia and i didn't vote.
Alun:
[2:21] Well and i didn't.
Adam:
[2:23] I didn't know i didn't know it would affect my life years later.
Alun:
[2:25] I did it purely for two reasons and two reasons only reason number one was i was aware that it affected my passport I'm a man with Polish relatives and I thought good to be in the same continent as my Polish relatives, number two I've always thought Nigel Farage had the face of someone vaguely like felt like an enemy.
Adam:
[2:49] Right. Do you know what I mean?
Alun:
[2:51] Just from a purely facial... I don't want to get into politics on the show because we're not that kind of show. But regardless of his policies, I think his face feels evil.
Adam:
[3:04] Arguably more important. Yeah. I would imagine... I would be quite surprised. And we're not going to do a poll, guys. But I would imagine that everyone listening to this podcast, probably, Wanted to feel similarly. You'd imagine so.
Alun:
[3:22] Well, I imagine everyone listening to this podcast is a little bit disappointed then because I can't help but point out that you also have a sibling. And I want to challenge you. Why was she not given your voting power?
Adam:
[3:36] Because I didn't.
Alun:
[3:39] Because. I mean, that used to be a catchphrase on topology.
Adam:
[3:43] If you go back far enough.
Alun:
[3:44] You'll find me and Adam often go, because.
Adam:
[3:47] Because. I avoid politics like the plague. And I didn't know that you could, maybe I just didn't know that you can give someone else your vote and they can vote for you by proxy. Bing. um so i just kind of stayed away from all that sort of stuff and i'm not even sure if i've ever voted maybe once in a local election, the region the region i'm from is like heavily conservative uh as you can probably tell no surprises there but it's it's just something that i was so detached from and distant from, but now it's it's affecting my life in a very real way so i'm having to do lots of research because you.
Alun:
[4:27] Can probably tell because posh you mean.
Adam:
[4:29] Yeah posh okay yeah yeah i mean it would be strange i mean american.
Alun:
[4:33] Listeners won't understand this that the the posher areas of the uk lean conservative.
Adam:
[4:40] Yes yeah where i'm from for.
Alun:
[4:42] Example we care far.
Adam:
[4:43] More about giving everyone a slice of the.
Alun:
[4:46] Pie because nobody has any.
Adam:
[4:47] Pie.
Alun:
[4:52] And it is by the absence of pie that we require more pie and therefore vote much more liberally.
Adam:
[4:59] Yeah. So up in the north, they would have a sausage roll or pie from Greg's. And in the south, we're having a salmon on crout from Marks and Spencer's or Waitrose. Although ironically, you used to work in Waitrose, didn't you?
Alun:
[5:16] I did. it was a mistake that because I think my mom persuaded me to get the job in order to teach me the value of money what it did do for me is give me, slightly more money uh than I would have otherwise have although not much being that I was a part-time minimum wage worker so I bought more beer with that money and was sick on a cabbage, So, backfired on all fronts, really, that job.
Adam:
[5:45] Sick on a cabbage. God, I bet your Polish relatives were furious.
Alun:
[5:49] Weren't they? It was a green cabbage.
Adam:
[5:57] So, anyway, going back to Schengen and the EU and that sort of stuff, I am now in a situation where I've been in Italy for some weeks. And previous to this, and they didn't make the podcast because they were very short trips and they were with two people very dear to me one was a trip to see the tour de france around an area of france obviously, um with my dad and it was six days and it was amazing good cool road trip saw lots of racing really really amazing uh, and then the second trip was in italy and that was with a dear friend of mine iris who i went to prague with some years ago we met in malaysia in 2015 we've also lived in australia at the same time uh, so she's a very old friend and she introduced me to italy it was actually my first time ever in italy and now i've been here for longer than lots of other countries i've been to, so really cool um but they are both in the schengen area, so the clock started ticking now some people might not know this hopefully lots of you do but i i didn't really because it never affected me because we were part of the eu previously, um is that the schengen area and the eu are two different things and there are some nuances that you should absolutely be aware of if you come into the schengen area and you want to stay for a very long time did you know all this already alan.
Alun:
[7:18] I'm aware of it because sometimes people email the show and ask questions like this and i have to research the replies.
Adam:
[7:26] Because you want to be informed but you i mean this is going to impact your life at some point in the future we would have thought unless we happened to go back into the EU. But the UK has never been part of the Schengen area.
Alun:
[7:39] I'm planning on getting a Polish passport, mate.
Adam:
[7:43] Aha okay that's cool so at that point that's that is a level up that's an upgrade in it.
Alun:
[7:50] Thank you yeah level two some people would say and i'm thinking about just getting i'll still be british because of certain aspects of my personality but.
Adam:
[8:01] I'll be polish.
Alun:
[8:02] On a spiritual and passport based level.
Adam:
[8:06] By polish um yeah so that's really cool i'm.
Alun:
[8:11] Already halfway there.
Adam:
[8:13] Is it is that when you will probably marry me and therefore allow me to have a passport which then gets me back into the eu.
Alun:
[8:22] I've been working on that for quite some time without your knowing.
Adam:
[8:29] Um mate let me just rip through a couple of things um this is going to get very boring which we don't like to do on the show yeah get out of your system.
Alun:
[8:38] Now before we're married.
Adam:
[8:39] Yeah the Schengen area is a border free travel zone in Europe where 29 countries have officially eliminated internal passport and border controls allowing people to move across them as if they were a single country so, let me just explain this to you mate and see if you think it makes sense try and dispel any myths, we were in the EU pre-Brexit which meant that what we could do was live and work in EU member countries freely for as long as we want. That was totally fine. And once we had entered into the Schengen area, because of that fact, we could then travel freely with no borders and we didn't need our passport.
Alun:
[9:20] Yeah.
Adam:
[9:21] Sound pretty good?
Alun:
[9:22] I love it.
Adam:
[9:24] Now, because we're not part of the EU as a result of Brexit, I am currently about 60 days into my 90-day limit of any 180 days.
Alun:
[9:38] That's right.
Adam:
[9:39] So the way that it works, and if you don't believe me, you can do what I did and ask ChatGPT. Now, I've done some research over the last few weeks. It's because this isn't just travel related, it's my life related. Is that the clock starts ticking the moment you enter the Schengen area from outside. And then if you want to know how many days you've done, you basically have to work it backwards from the current day.
Alun:
[10:06] Sounds right to me. yeah i agree with you.
Adam:
[10:09] And because i previously mentioned my partner is now studying a master's in italy i have never ever wanted to be part of the eu more than right now and, i there is going to be people listening to this shortly they go oh my god he's you know he's a white guy from the uk who's who's now realized that other people need visas to do stuff, yeah i mean what i am realizing is that we had it so amazingly good before Brexit. And now there are a lot of obstacles in our way.
Alun:
[10:39] Should have voted, mate. Should have voted in the referendum because I can't help but remember, I think that we lost by one vote and you were in the camel farm and couldn't be arsed. So we're looking down the barrel of a lot of decades of tyranny not being in that EU. And a lot of people are saying it's your fault.
Adam:
[11:02] Imagine if it was my fault. God, what an awful thing to find out on the podcast.
Alun:
[11:07] Yeah. And do you know what? I want to tell a story really quickly.
Alun:
[11:10] I know you made me promise not to do well with you because we don't have time, but it's really quick. When I was in the Atacama Desert in Chile, I was a young man.
Adam:
[11:20] As you do.
Alun:
[11:20] 26 years old. And I was under the impression that, everyone who would be in Chile knew that Brexit was horrendous. and not good for anyone, and bad idea, and it was silly. So I'd not been exposed to many British people, because I'd been in Australia, and then Africa, and then New Zealand, and then South America. And there was this British guy on this tour I was doing of the Atacama Desert. I went, oh, British guy. Oh, man, tell me news of back home. Like, how is it now that that fucking horrendous things happened? Like, how is it after Brexit? And he went, very good, thank you. it's actually better than ever and yes, much better and you know what's true as well if we did the referendum again it would be the same result but three times as popular that's how good it's been I was like oh god, Okay. And he went, yes, well, asking people how Brexit is. As if he really got in his bonnet about it. He was like, asking how it is, like it might not be good. Well, it's better than good.
Adam:
[12:29] Was he, do you know, I mean, judging by your accent, I don't know if you're doing an impression of him.
Alun:
[12:34] Oh, yes, he was from wherever this is from. Christ.
Adam:
[12:37] Well, that's very southern.
Alun:
[12:39] Yeah, he was from the south, yeah.
Adam:
[12:41] Wankers.
Alun:
[12:43] He looked as if Like You know He sounds like the sort of.
Adam:
[12:48] People that would have colonised India.
Alun:
[12:51] I think Ancestrally he did And also he looked like he consumed Beer So readily that it made up Most of his carbohydrate intake, He had one of those bellies That looks like it's so hard That you could use it to crack a walnut Yeah.
Adam:
[13:11] Just a mountain of pork scratching crumbs just resting on top of his on his belly shelf.
Alun:
[13:17] It's amazing to have a belly so hard because what's that made of.
Adam:
[13:21] Oh just beer obviously is that what.
Alun:
[13:23] It is is that the difference between a fat belly and a beer belly is one is just.
Adam:
[13:28] Hard like.
Alun:
[13:29] That he was pregnant.
Adam:
[13:31] Yeah i don't know i don't know i've got no idea but that is that is awful he's obviously incredibly opinionated and i've always thought i don't know if this is true but this is just how i you know make my way through life without going mental if you've got a, really really strong opinion about anything in life, yeah you either have to know much more than almost everyone else about the topic, or have some humility and realize you probably don't know enough about both sides of the argument.
Alun:
[14:00] Okay my strongest opinion is that one i have about wiping your bum after going to the.
Adam:
[14:06] Toilet, isn't it, uh that in every single way you can cut it not your bum uh water a bum gun is superior to cleaning that's my.
Alun:
[14:21] Opinion but i think if i take an honest look at my life that seems to be the topic that gets me the most frustrated the quickest.
Adam:
[14:29] Would you agree um would you agree i've become.
Alun:
[14:33] Most activated when i'm talking about that.
Adam:
[14:35] Yeah i start to question whether you're in fact italian you see this fire light up inside you i can't believe anyone would even think for those of you don't.
Alun:
[14:45] Know yeah like adam adam said i basically think it's crazy to use toilet paper and that water is always best um toilet paper is fine to dry, but water's always best. If I take an honest look at myself, I get more animated about that than things, topics that people present me with, which I know logically are much more important. People have asked me about a real serious shit that I think is morally and ethically, you know, there's a much more important. Serious implications. I don't get as animated about that as I do about the toilet paper thing. And that says a lot about me and I understand that it's negative. My question to you is, which of those categories do you think I fall most into? Do I know more about the topic than anyone else? humility that i yeah might be.
Adam:
[15:37] Wrong no no i think i think in that scenario you know a lot about hygiene listeners if you don't know this about alan which you probably don't because you don't know him in a way that that i do um, is that he knows a lot about hygiene you know a lot about science the anatomy body this kind of stuff i.
Alun:
[15:53] Don't know if hygiene's my like mastermind subject but like the body and science yeah.
Adam:
[15:58] Yeah more more than most though more than most people if i've ever got sort of a complaint i'll just flick you a message and say hey mate um this has happened, i know you've received some rave diagnoses indeed from me haven't you, i'll just flick you a message of a you know tuesday afternoon hey mate i've got some poo on my bum i don't know, i want to know which method that i have at my disposal i'm looking at 10 minutes away from a meeting dude. But no, I would say that you've thought about it more. Because people just do whatever's in front of them, don't they? People don't question it. People just go to the toilet and there is tissue paper there. And you know that that's what other people... That's just the way it is. If there's a bum gun there, use a bum gun. That's just how it works. It's just a cultural, societal difference.
Alun:
[16:47] Well, I'm becoming afraid that I have, in fact, sidetracked you.
Adam:
[16:53] You have, in a very real way. but we are still talking about shit I suppose and the fact that we left the EU is shit, let me just quickly reel off these things then we'll do something fun mate so for anyone who doesn't know there are 29 member countries, there are 25 of them actually are EU members Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia Checha, Denmark, Estonia Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg Malta, the Netherlands, Poland that's where you come in Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain and Sweden in alphabetical order and the non-EU members of which there are four, Iceland, Liechtenstein Norway and Switzerland, All good countries.
Alun:
[17:39] I like what they do in the World Cup.
Adam:
[17:43] Yeah which is the way that we should grade every single country um, essentially mate it's causing me a load of pain i don't want to go through it but you know, am i am i crying because this is the first kind of travel hardship that i've come into maybe we've got a pretty good deal around the world should we just shut up and stop throwing our toys out the pram or should we, throw them out the pram so far that they hit nigel farage in his face and he realizes that natural fact, a recap what and I'll sneak my vote in.
Alun:
[18:16] I want you to sneak your vote in but I also think I'm going to be a bit glib, but a lot of the people that voted to leave the.
Adam:
[18:24] EU are now dead, ah because Covid came after yeah right because it went Brexit, Covid dead I mean it was around the time look.
Alun:
[18:38] This has made my political life and I'm not going to get political on the podcast but I was like, I'm going to say this. I voted for tuition fees in the UK not to triple. They tripled because old people didn't care. I then voted for us to remain in the EU. We left the EU because that's what the old people wanted. My whole life, politically, I've just basically been told that the UK doesn't care about young people. It cares about the people who are in power who happen to be older people. Like Nigel Farage. So I think we recount it. Maybe let's wait another five years or so just to be safe and then recount it and we'll see what happens. Get back in the EU. Do you know what I mean? And then it'll be problem sorted because you're actually, your partner has a, I mean, I hope you won't mind me saying this, an absolutely terrible passport.
Adam:
[19:31] No no no absolutely and we're feeling that pain right now she's indian and she's she's managed to to get to italy, you know where she'll probably have a five-year residence visa at some point which is amazing, that's great very fortuitous but a lot of hard work and money and, and i can't do the same i can't be in italy for as long as she can without sort of a work visa and but traveling as an indian it's not something that i obviously now that it's in front of me i do have to think about it, but previously we just waltzed around the world going yeah we're from the uk you were from the cut to a couple of months ago when i came to meet my dad at geneva airport and they're going oh you need to go down that other queue with all the peasants, yeah obviously that's a joke um but this huge queue and i had to get my fingerprints taken and i'm there like a some fucking mug going oh i don't know if you've seen that but it's a uk passport so just let me through and they're like no not, not anymore mate get to the back of the queue with the others and i'm going, okay okay this is what i was on a camel farm i'll have you know, wouldn't it be great if that gave.
Alun:
[20:42] You a pass.
Adam:
[20:44] Well yeah would be great but what what is the answer because i used to say and i know that this is completely unfounded and i'm going to sound like a bloody idiot because of it, but there are a lot of people that live in their home countries who for whatever reason don't want to travel and then you've got people like us who really want to travel, so maybe we could just get like a different passport or sort of a maybe and then we get we just get access because, we're not going to live in the countries maybe we will and maybe there's another pathway there that we need to explore but, i was just thinking is there a way is there like maybe not a tier system but maybe like a different channel you can opt in, people who really care about their career and setting up a life for themselves in one place from a young age, or people like us who would rather explore the world they're very curious maybe they're going through some mental health issues when they're young and they want to go traveling for 12 years you get a different passport.
Alun:
[21:43] What do you think about that it's mad that democratically people's votes all are worth the same regardless of their situation and whether the vote affects them at all, well this is the thing about the tyranny of the majority right this philosophical concept that democracy creates tyranny by its definition like it's just the majority rules and the reality is, if the majority of people aren't starving, then people aren't going to vote to give food to hungry people if the majority of people don't want to travel people aren't going to vote for something which affects a passport so much do you know i mean so, democracy is by its definition it's this thing that we hail in the west as being, an absolute bastion of freedom to the point where we attack countries that don't have democracy because they're so backwards and then put on the news like oh look at these people wearing a burqa they're enslaved i'm treading into such fucking.
Alun:
[22:46] Terribly like political territory here but my point is we judge undemocratic countries i'm not saying that their leadership is right at all by the way, i'm just saying that we on the face of it look at democracy like it means freedom and anything else is evil, Maybe that other thing is evil. I'm not talking about that. But I do think that there's an inherent tyranny to democracy as well.
Alun:
[23:14] And you can experience that like you are with a vote that has led to hardship for you. I mean, I know boo-hoo because we're white guys with British good passports. But it's led to things being less convenient. It's not optimal for you. Yeah, for sure. And of course, on a more extreme extent, it's like, what about issues that affect homelessness or drug addicts or people who are struggling? Like, who's there to vote for them? Because they're not going to vote as liberally or as easily as someone who's living in a lovely three-bed townhouse in central London, you know? So it's like, there's this tyranny to democracy. The ancient Greek system is really interesting. They used to take a random selection of the population and they were obligated to be on a panel that then decided on how to pass laws. It was like conscription, like jury duty. They would just be like, yeah, here's the roll call, right? You, you, you, you, you, you represent a cross section of society to have counsel, discuss the issues, make votes, make changes. We're going to propose legislation to you, make decisions and go on like that. And, you know, there's something I quite like about that, although, of course, it has its problems as well.
Adam:
[24:32] Yeah, I think it's also the illusion of choice as well, isn't it? I do think that by giving people an option to choose between a few different parties, you're still only choosing between those parties. You can't necessarily cherry pick one policy from them and one policy from them and then change things or amend things slightly. And I think that is kind of an issue because people think that they're choosing one or the other, which I guess technically they are, but they can still only choose from the options available to them, right? and yeah usually a friend of mine um in india i remember her saying some time ago when we were first there in 2024 she said that in india and i suppose you could probably extend this to most countries um, it's a little bit crude but the nothing is a problem until a rich person until it becomes a problem for a rich person, and i mean it kind of speaks to your point about homelessness or people starving or whatever, the the moment it affects someone in power or someone with a lot of money and influence and sway then all of a sudden it becomes an issue but if it's just a load of poor people fighting amongst themselves, no one gives a shit and, absolutely i'm not saying that's the situation i'm in but i'm not liking it so much of the passport stuff is.
Alun:
[25:50] So much of the passport stuff is so arbitrary when when i was in south africa i was with a german traveler and a Brazilian traveler and we wanted to.
Adam:
[25:58] Go to Lesotho.
Alun:
[25:58] For the day and me and the German guy could just go, but the Brazilian guy, Wagner, friend of the show, he just wasn't allowed in.
Adam:
[26:08] Yeah, it's bollocks.
Alun:
[26:09] And so, allegedly, what happened, although we might have to beat Wagner's name, it was just a Brazilian guy, right? We don't know who it was, but, you know, allegedly, maybe he just, like, ducked under the seat of the car and went through the border that way.
Adam:
[26:27] Oh, right.
Alun:
[26:28] Because the guy driving the car was like, right, get down, don't worry about it, we're going straight to the start, mate. so it just goes to show like how arbitrary like why he had the same amount of money and financial freedom we were going to lesoto for a day, what difference does it make whether he's allowed at the border or not imagine the situation where like we're all traveling together we've been on the road for months but like what he's a brazilian flight risk like he's gonna run off and start a.
Adam:
[26:58] What's the risk well i think it's also bilateral agreements isn't it it must be and that's kind of how working holiday visas work i mean if lesotho and and uh brazil, had a freedom of travel between the two maybe it would be a different story the.
Alun:
[27:14] Lesothan people are like if we can't come to brazil.
Adam:
[27:18] There's no way you're going to lesotho.
Alun:
[27:21] So put that in your pipe and smoke it rio degenerans.
Adam:
[27:25] Well i don't know but it's got to be mutually beneficial isn't it for all the parties involved not that the relationship with a lot of countries and the uk, historically has been i mean i i think we have almost almost come out of our history fucking scot-free, because i receive a lot of very generous hospitable yeah you know lovely kind treatment around the world.
Alun:
[27:49] Isn't that crazy that we spent hundreds and hundreds of years pillaging desecrating raping taking all the.
Adam:
[27:57] Money out of country everything stealing.
Alun:
[27:59] All of that sort of stuff then at the turn of the century we went have it have it back a little bit have it.
Adam:
[28:06] Back a little.
Alun:
[28:07] Bit not all of it but have some of it back.
Adam:
[28:09] And then independence day yeah just call independence day celebrated.
Alun:
[28:13] Manchester United and the Queen.
Adam:
[28:16] That's what we know about England Manchester United and.
Alun:
[28:18] The Queen oh yeah nice.
Adam:
[28:21] One that's a good place to.
Alun:
[28:23] End the show I think.
Adam:
[28:24] Adam it is it's a good place to end the show mate thank you I have been dying to tell you a little story over in the Patreon section about how I found out that consuming two teaspoons of olive oil first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, forms as a mild laxative so I'll see you there thank you so much cheers bye bye.
