How old is pizza? Tripping Point returns and the stakes have never been higher, as Alun gets tested on his knowledge of all things Italian. We aim to prepare you for your next trip to Italy, ensuring you don't order a cappuccino too late in the day or overspend when donating to the Catholic Church. Ciao!
Support the show and access the Lost & Found section, as Adam's coffee order gets oversimplified and Alun's setting us hypnosis homework.
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Intro
01:20 - Adam dangles a coffee carrot
02:10 - Going travelling with friends from childhood
04:32 - Alun's Italy trip and the shroud of Turin
07:10 - Buddha's diet revelation
09:08 - Tripping Point: Italian Special
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Welcome to Tripology
Alun:
[0:02] Hello and welcome to this episode of Tripology. It's the only backpacking show where two best friends simply can't stand to not talk to each other each and
Alun:
[0:11] every week. So we do it and we put it on the internet and that's what you're listening to right now. I'm Alan and I'm here with the other Milanese, Adam.
Adam:
[0:21] I love your pronunciation, mate. Thanks ever so much for joining us for another week of Tripology. Got a fun one for you today, guys. I'm going to test alan's knowledge on italy we got a stripping point you guessed it and then in the lost and found section that's patreon you got to pay some money for that uh i'm going to tell alan a funny story about when i ordered a coffee, and i know that doesn't sound very funny but trust me it is and alan you'll love it.
Alun:
[0:46] I'm excited about it yeah good to hear about you ordering coffee yeah i know you're a very particular man you uh love very specific details and nuances and refinements i was in Oman with you ordering coffee, oftentimes the barista would look perplexed at your order so I'm excited to hear.
Adam:
[1:06] How you've been getting on in Milan well I'll tell you one thing I'll just leave you a little tidbit I'll dangle a carrot um hopefully to get some of you in a cafe talking about carrots, I um I'll dangle a carrot and hopefully that'll get some of you uh, loyal listeners over into the Patreon section but it was not too dissimilar from that very famous video that went round on the internet in the 2000s I believe, can you remember what it was which video I'm referring to? Have you had to guess?
Alun:
[1:38] A video about a coffee shop.
Adam:
[1:40] It involved two girls and one cup.
Alun:
[1:41] Oh, no. I don't want to think about it because that video lives rent-free in my head whenever I see a cup. And I hate that that went round the internet so much. Some people will know about what Adam's talking about. If you don't, try not to know about it because there's no reason for you to know about it. It went round when we were in high school and it disturbed everyone a lot.
Adam:
[2:05] Yeah it was anything but sexy um but this coffee story is a little bit sexy so get over there and i look forward to seeing you, there alan you've been to italy we haven't been to italy together it's one of the very few countries we haven't been to together.
Alun:
[2:21] No i actually chose to go to italy with someone else uh another best friend of mine my oldest friend he lives in london and he has done for ever such a long time uh he's my only friend from high school, who has endured my friendship until the modern times.
Adam:
[2:40] Oh wow really that's.
Alun:
[2:42] Every other friend something's happened either one of us has died or we've fallen out or we've had issues or we just simply have lost touch, with good old italy friend though we've stayed true and we go on a trip together every once in a while we've been to budapest together we've been to italy together we've been to new zealand together we've done a lot of stuff me and him.
Adam:
[3:08] What on earth well hang on so this this then maybe makes me reflect on myself.
Alun:
[3:15] Because why i didn't choose you.
Adam:
[3:18] No, not just that. Because we're different, mate. We're different. You fall into the category of my friends, whom I met when I was traveling. You're a travel friend. We just happened to have got closer than anyone I've ever met and started a travel show together.
Alun:
[3:32] Physically.
Adam:
[3:33] You are someone who shares similar interests and passions, and we bonded through traveling, and therefore I knew that we could travel together. However, you've got a friend from back home that I assume you knew from quite a young age at school, and you have ended up being able to travel with them, which, look, guys, if you're listening to this at home and you know me from school, I love you to bits and I wouldn't change you for the world. However, I'm not sure we could go backpacking together.
Alun:
[3:59] Yeah i know i understand what you're saying he's a friend who, we just happened to be in school together he was there on the bus trip that got me first addicted to travel i've told it before i went on a top deck tour i fell in love with australian people he was there for that so he was at the genesis the birthplace he was actually the person that suggested that backpacking trip he messaged me in the summer holidays of university and said hey i'm looking for something to do this summer do you want to come on this bus tour i said sure, and the rest was history not only in terms of our friendship but in terms of me just loving to travel.
Adam:
[4:34] So in many ways you've got him to thank for.
Alun:
[4:37] Everything he started it all in many ways yeah exactly and we went to italy together quite recently on my way back i'm sure i spoke about it on the podcast because on my way back from, uh turkey to greece to italy and then back home after pakistan and india that same trip And, my main thing I was excited about in Italy Was the Shroud of Turin.
Adam:
[4:59] Yes, of course, which is, don't tell me, a piece of fabric that was worn by the man himself.
Alun:
[5:08] It's supposedly the burial shroud of Jesus Christ. Jesus, Yeshua, the name of him from Nazareth, Christ meaning anointed one. He was said to be buried in this cloth. And a lot of people say it's a load of old hokum. It's Fugazi. A lot of people saying, no way, no how, that ain't the shroud we're looking for. But the Turinians, that's a species of people that live in and around Turin, they say it is the real shroud. And I was disappointed to learn that you can't actually see the shroud.
Adam:
[5:46] Oh, dear. So you went all the way to Turin. I'm assuming it is in Turin.
Alun:
[5:49] I burst right through the cathedral drawer. I said, throw me the crown of the shroud. they said you can't see it it's hermetically sealed in a sort of chamber to preserve it and i said what if i pay a few euros they said we can't be convinced.
Adam:
[6:08] Well those are some serious lengths to go to to go to if it's not the real one aren't they.
Alun:
[6:14] I'm interested in things what aren't real because i have seen more buddha's teeth than there are teeth in the human mouth, so i know that at least one of those wasn't in fact buddha's teeth i was interested in seeing it all the same buddha's teeth, yeah i've seen a lot of buddha's teeth these are some of the things i've seen buddha's teeth i've seen, such a collection of objects claiming to be the walking stick of the prophet muhammad peace be upon him that if true he had an enormous and quite frankly flamboyant walking stick collection laughing.
Adam:
[6:54] A very eccentric guy.
Alun:
[6:56] So I don't want to say that these aren't the real walking sticks of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. But if they are, I think that borders on an obsession.
Adam:
[7:14] A lot of things people don't know about Prophet Muhammad. Loved a walking stick. No, but going back to Buddha's teeth, I mean, he was vegetarian, wasn't he? Maybe even vegan.
Alun:
[7:26] No, and actually, Adam, you've revealed a little bit of bigotry there because he actually died eating a piece of tainted pork.
Adam:
[7:35] Wow. That is a revelation. That's a shock.
Alun:
[7:39] Well, yeah, to you. But to the Buddhist community at large, Buddhists in general, some of them are vegetarian, but it is known historically that Siddhartha Gautama, the Buddha, did consume animal products.
Adam:
[7:51] Okay, interesting. And therefore, had teeth.
Alun:
[7:57] Well, actually, a lot of people think maybe he wrestled with the idea of vegetarianism his whole life, which is why it's quite ironic that when he went, well, actually, ultimately, I've decided what can the harm be? Death.
Adam:
[8:08] Death. There you go. uh dear oh dear okay so well you went to turin you had a good time apart from not being able to see the shroud of turin.
Alun:
[8:17] Didn't see the shroud of turin i went to a lovely film museum there where you can see the bicentennial man's face and the arms of dr octopus two things which combined would make the bicentennial octopus one of the most terrifying objects i can think of.
Adam:
[8:32] Right what else did you do in italy because i've got a tripping point ready and.
Alun:
[8:36] Prepared sorry i mean I saw a shroud and the bicentennial octopus, Adam. I didn't do anything else. That's all I had time for.
Adam:
[8:43] No, that's pretty alternative. The only thing I'm saying, I'm not saying you should have done more. I'm just saying I'm worried about how you're going to score on this quiz.
Alun:
[8:51] I saw the Duomo in Milan.
Adam:
[8:54] Okay, cool. None of the questions about that. So you've been to Milan. Did you like it? Because it's kind of where I live at the moment.
Alun:
[9:02] I saw some poorly performed English stand-up comedy, and I walked around the city. I ate a pizza or two.
Adam:
[9:10] Interesting there is a question about pizza as there would be being a quiz about, italy should we get to it i've got some steaks for you mate not a literal steak.
Alun:
[9:21] It's the theme tune that gives me anxiety every time it's tripping point, For those of you who don't know, I was on Tripping Point as a younger man. Not Tripping Point, Tipping Point on ITV. There was an article written about me in which the following accusations were levelled. I talked too much and I passed too many questions. All that withstanding though, I won the show and with that money, I flew to Canada and I met you and that's how the podcast started. So we do this quiz now, unfortunately, called Tripping Point, where you ask me hard questions and it makes me anxious.
Adam:
[10:04] Yeah and we can tell that your energy has been impacted by the announcement of the quiz, everyone at home is willing you on just like they were when you were playing, tipping point all those years ago i mean you've just glossed over that but that is an amazing story which we have told on the show before i'm sure, but you thanks alan went on a game show in the uk that is televised nationally, won the money and then use that money to fly to canada which is where i picked him up from the airport and, it became the genesis of our friendship and therefore this show so what a fucking cool story that we just don't really talk about that often or give well i mean you probably think about it more than i do but i think it's amazing mate.
Alun:
[10:50] Well that's the thing you'd have to listen to the show for a long time i wonder how many of our listeners now listen to every episode because we kind of take for granted that they know the whole lore of the show. But of course, if you dived in an episode, I mean, it's not one of those shows that you'd maybe think to go all the way back. I think some people just dive in and then stay with us. So maybe a lot of people didn't know that or on the old tipping point.
Adam:
[11:11] Yeah. No, I think that's really cool. There must be people listening to this. It's their first few episodes. They think, oh, these guys are all right. I like travel. I like listening to these two make idiots of themselves. Hang on, what? Alan was on tipping point. He was already famous. yeah it was anxious though because it was during.
Alun:
[11:27] Covid so my then partner dropped me off at the studio and you couldn't stay and watch so if you were out you were out so my worst fear was her dropping me off after she'd like driven me down to the studio we'd got a hotel like paid for by itv it was all this stress my worst fear was her dropping me off me getting like a couple of questions wrong and then ringing her up five minutes later, can you pick me up i uh i've lost.
Adam:
[11:50] Already i've lost already but you had a game plan i mean we don't have to destroy them destroyed destroyed um, okay are you ready mate are you ready i've got some stakes for you like i said not some literal stakes, but i think that if you get what would be what would be acceptable for this because some of the questions are hard how many questions are there there are six there are six questions, okay i like i'm looking for five sometimes two seven correct, four okay if you get four correct then we're saying that's a good thing then if you get four correct i will get a seven day streak on duolingo learning italian you want to do that anyway, no but i don't know mate because i've tried i've tried but every time, i log on i want the shot Out of children. What, for four? Well, I've got to go over to... Well, I've got to go over to Chirin and try and charm my way in there. And then what? You're going to fly over from Tokyo.
Alun:
[12:57] Are you? I'll settle for a replica.
Adam:
[13:01] Okay. Haven't they got a replica there, though, that they just show people? Surely they could just say, look, those are Buddha's teeth. I know it's a different religion, but we just thought we'd get everything in the same room to save you all time.
Alun:
[13:14] Yeah. Well, this is what I want. I want a picture of you on the Instagram in a shroud with a cane and some false teeth.
Adam:
[13:23] Well, I've just cherry-picked my three favorite things about each religion.
Alun:
[13:28] Yeah, but you can't reference them at all, because then it becomes offensive. So it's just for people in the know. It's you with a cape, you know, a shroud, some teeth, and a cane. Are you willing to do it?
Adam:
[13:41] Yeah, of course, if you get four.
Alun:
[13:42] That's for, if I get four, yeah.
Adam:
[13:44] Or more, of course, or more. And then, well, what's the forfeit if you get less than four? Do you have to do the same?
Alun:
[13:50] I'll apologize. i'll apologize because i've wasted everyone's time.
Adam:
[13:54] To what live on air.
Alun:
[13:56] I'll apologize live on air i'll really do a sincere apology for wasting everyone's time and depriving them of that picture and that for me is a lot because my therapist says that i'm a narcissist.
Adam:
[14:09] You can even maybe go one step further and just record a quick video we'll stick it up on the instagram story and everyone will know that you failed tripping
Adam:
[14:15] point the italian special here we go.
Alun:
[14:18] Let's go the stakes they've never been more real.
Adam:
[14:21] Question number one italy doesn't rank as europe's number one in which one of these following categories is it a wine production is it b, unesco world heritage sites is it c the manufacturing of pharmaceuticals or is it d olive oil production.
Alun:
[14:41] So it does it is the top in in three of those.
Adam:
[14:45] Exactly right i'm glad i worded the question in a way that you understood because when I read it back, it sounded strange. What are we thinking?
Alun:
[14:55] Man.
Adam:
[14:56] Is it a toughie? You've only got to get the right one.
Alun:
[14:58] It's really hard, that.
Adam:
[15:01] Wine production.
Alun:
[15:01] I'm going to go with...
Adam:
[15:03] UNESCO World Heritage Sites, the manufacturing of pharmaceuticals, and olive oil production.
Alun:
[15:09] Which one does it not rank as Europe's number one? Europe's number one, specifically. That changes things. Europe's number one.
Adam:
[15:16] Mm-hmm.
Alun:
[15:17] So I was going to go UNESCO, but Europe's number one. It's got to have a lot of them, isn't it?
Adam:
[15:23] Yeah.
Alun:
[15:24] Hold on has it got more than oh it's difficult that he's panicking wine unesco olive oil, pharmaceuticals yeah why you wouldn't have added pharmaceuticals in there it's just not the way your brain works so it must be number one in pharmaceuticals because you just wouldn't have gone there i don't think, um you've always got to play against adam when you're doing tripping point folks, because there's no way you sat there at home and were panicking for a fourth one you go pharmaceuticals so it's definitely in there, wine.
Adam:
[15:58] Adam doesn't use words that long.
Alun:
[16:00] Olive oil definitely they are i would say because no one gives a shit about french olive oil.
Adam:
[16:07] No but there are other olive oil.
Alun:
[16:09] Producing yeah but not not yeah i mean let's have some fucking self-respect, um so it's between it's why it's why i know i'm taking too long it's wine or unesco okay wine's a difficult one because there's obviously it's either france or italy.
Adam:
[16:30] Well keen-eared listeners will know that i actually did say the answer or at least one of the answers to this question on a previous episode quite a recent one so shows that you You do too much talking and not enough listening to.
Alun:
[16:43] What I'm saying.
Adam:
[16:43] Alan.
Alun:
[16:44] Well, that's fucking true enough. Let me tell you that for an absolute fact. I'm going to go UNESCO, mate.
Adam:
[16:53] Okay. Okay. I'm sorry to tell you. I'm very sorry to tell you.
Alun:
[16:56] Ah, shit, it's wine.
Adam:
[16:58] That not only... Does Italy rank as number one for the number of UNESCO World Heritage Sites in Europe? It actually has the most in the world of any country in the world. It's got 62. Can you, Adam and Eve, it?
Alun:
[17:11] No, I can because of all the Roman shit. I should have said wine. It's wine, isn't it?
Adam:
[17:15] No, it's olive oil. It's even more funny. It's even more ironic.
Alun:
[17:19] You tricky little bitch.
Adam:
[17:21] Yeah. Spain actually ranks as number one. Would you believe? Yeah, apparently so. Apparently so. Maybe lesser quality. It's not like this good stuff that I'm making over here in Italy.
Alun:
[17:31] I feel like I used up a lot of my time in that question, but I'm going to have to now go and be a bit faster.
Adam:
[17:39] Well, you know, these are some fun questions. We've got the time, we've got the time, why not?
Adam:
[17:43] The Trevi Fountain, number two, the Trevi Fountain in Rome, is the world's largest Baroque fountain. Traditionally, visitors will toss a coin over their shoulder into the fountain for good fortune. in euros how much is estimated to be tossed into the fountain each day is it a 55 euros is it b 80 euros, is it c 120 euros or is it d 3 000 euros.
Alun:
[18:11] Definitely 3 000.
Adam:
[18:13] I've seen more.
Alun:
[18:13] Than 100 euros be.
Adam:
[18:14] Chucked in there 3 000 final answer, yeah it's amazing a fun fact is that around 1.5 million euros is collected each year by the Catholic charity Caritas and then donated to people in need can you believe 3,000.
Alun:
[18:30] Euros a day I mean it's a quicker way.
Adam:
[18:32] To earn some money mate than what we're doing.
Alun:
[18:33] That was a gimme that question because I've hung around the Trevi fountain and the it's basically like a.
Adam:
[18:41] In a pair of.
Alun:
[18:41] Goggles and a snorkel, it's yeah it's mental it's just people after people after people just tossing, shit in the fountain by shit I mean money yeah.
Adam:
[18:54] Those euros those shitty euros not.
Alun:
[18:56] The pound sterling one all mate.
Adam:
[19:00] So the coin toss tradition, for anyone who doesn't know, which was me before this quiz, is that throwing one coin over your left shoulder into the fountain ensures you return to Rome. Throwing two coins means you will return and find a new romance, and throwing three means you will return, find, romance, and marry. So it just says coin. It doesn't say that you could throw three coins in of a lesser value that make up one coin. Important to remember that if you don't want to spend too much money on your future.
Alun:
[19:29] If I know Catholics, there'll be a pretty heavy penalty for making that mistake. I mean, they crucified Christ because someone stole an apple about 3,000 years earlier. So God knows what they'll do to someone for cheating the system like that.
Adam:
[19:47] Here we go. Talking about coffee. Number three. Italy's coffee culture is fast-paced, social and straightforward, with many Italians drinking multiple cups on a daily basis. but after what time is it frowned upon to order a cappuccino is it a 9 a.m is it b 11 a.m is it c 1 p.m or is it d 4 p.m.
Alun:
[20:10] I'm gonna go 11 it's a breakfast coffee so it could be nine but i think i think you can oh maybe you've got to drink it really early it's definitely it's a breakfast coffee so it's either nine or eleven, shit cry.
Adam:
[20:27] Do you like a cappuccino.
Alun:
[20:28] No i don't i think it's disgusting um.
Adam:
[20:33] Cappuccino as they say.
Alun:
[20:35] Nine or eleven do you know what i reckon the italians are up early enough for it to be nine.
Adam:
[20:43] Okay.
Alun:
[20:44] 11. 11 is either 9 or 11, mate. I know it's a breakfast coffee, but 11, 11, 11.
Adam:
[20:53] I'm already impressed that you know it's typically a breakfast coffee.
Alun:
[20:55] You could have one at 10. You could have one at 10. I think that's okay. If it's 9 is the cutoff, then they need to... The modern world does not allow for that. So I'm going to say 11.
Adam:
[21:06] You're correct. It is 11.
Alun:
[21:07] All right.
Adam:
[21:08] Well done. The Italians see cappuccinos as a breakfast drink and believe consuming milk after a meal is bad for digestion, there you go so i have on on the odd occasion had a cappuccino afterwards and the tension in the coffee shop is almost tangible, if you go to one of these western coffee shops you know the ones that now look pretty generic they're kind of scandinavian quite minimal, they've got croissant and other pastries and stuff, and usually a bicycle on the wall, someone in the corner on their MacBook. You know the type of coffee shop. They're wearing... A woolly hat, even though it's quite warm. This kind of stuff. They will do a cappuccino after 11. But if you go into one of these little neighborhood joints and you bowl in there as a tourist.
Alun:
[21:57] They go, can I have a cappuccino, please? No.
Adam:
[22:01] Yeah. Get out of the Schengen area right now.
Alun:
[22:05] Yeah. You voted for Brexit.
Adam:
[22:11] Is that your Italian accent? You sound like you're from Kazakhstan. no cappuccino.
Alun:
[22:17] For you you're like.
Adam:
[22:21] You're like number four how are you doing at the moment have you got two two out of three.
Alun:
[22:23] Two out of.
Adam:
[22:24] Three not bad um you'll like this next one i put this question in specifically for you number four, the university of bologna is one of europe's largest in-person universities with around 90 000 students but what is the university famous for, is it a the world's oldest university still in operation today is it b the first institution to award a degree for higher learning is it c the first university to have a female professor or is it d, alumni including several popes nicholas copernicus enzo ferrari and the world's greatest ever referee and the second time he's featuring on the show it's pierre luigi calina.
Alun:
[23:05] Adam you're throwing away points here it's such an alarming rate it's almost like you want to dress in the shroud of churin with a cane and some false teeth because obviously the answer's d because you included so much detail on the.
Adam:
[23:15] Answer i have.
Alun:
[23:17] To imagine that the first people to give away a degree um for higher learning i've got to imagine that was fucking ages and there's probably like a ancient greek thing or something and first female that's probably the us.
Adam:
[23:30] I'm gonna go um i'm gonna go with the last one mate all those popes i am gonna give you half a point what because they're all true. oh right what do you think about that very very cool yeah all right i'll take above half a point's useless.
Alun:
[23:51] To me in this in this uh thing though isn't it.
Adam:
[23:54] No because you still got two more questions technically yeah but i'm.
Alun:
[23:58] Either gonna get i'm either gonna get the right four and a half or three and a half.
Adam:
[24:02] Yeah well maybe it'd be you won't be able to sleep at night if you get three and a half and you'll have to think about doing that apology online um, so yeah all of the above a true university of bologna i imagine it's a travel destination in its own right for those reasons the university was founded in 1088 and has remained an operating university ever since which does make it the oldest university still in operation today pretty cool isn't.
Alun:
[24:26] It is i resent the use of a trick question because there was really no.
Adam:
[24:30] Way i was going to get any more than half a point now you might as well have.
Alun:
[24:33] Just taken that question rolled it up into a tight ball and thrown it in the trash mind you because i mean it's interesting for us all to know i i love that you included it but from a points perspective it was really very unlikely that i would say well breaking free of the format of the show adam i actually think all of them are true.
Adam:
[24:49] No maybe i could have i should have like every other quiz on earth included another option which was all of the above but i chose not to because i thought it'd be funny um all right well.
Alun:
[24:59] Good the last were had.
Adam:
[25:00] Believe it or not i don't just do this quiz for you alan i do it for me and you the listener at home uh here we go number five inside italy's borders lies two other countries can you name them.
Alun:
[25:17] They're not going to give you multiple choice.
Adam:
[25:19] Nope, nope, nope.
Alun:
[25:20] Okay. Well, Vatican City.
Adam:
[25:23] Okay, that's number one. Well done. Correctamundo.
Alun:
[25:26] Another one. Is there another one?
Adam:
[25:29] There is. There is. I can give you a clue.
Alun:
[25:31] Well, what I would like, can I get half a point for Vatican City?
Adam:
[25:36] Yes. I think that's going to be fair, isn't it?
Alun:
[25:38] You know what I'm saying? I want to take that half a point. That gets me on three, and then it's all to play for in the final question. I'm not even going to bother naming the other country. Even though I know it, I'm not going to name it because I'm going to take these three little poinkins to the next question, baby.
Adam:
[25:53] So funny. You kick yourself. You kick yourself, mate. You're really not going to guess what it is because it doesn't matter.
Alun:
[25:57] That can't be asked.
Adam:
[25:59] Really? Okay. It's San Marino.
Alun:
[26:03] Oh, yeah, of course. San Marino. Love it. I love San Marino. I actually used to live there. Okay. On to the next question.
Adam:
[26:11] I went past San Marino on a train the other day.
Alun:
[26:13] Did you?
Adam:
[26:14] And it's so bloody small.
Alun:
[26:15] I didn't know you'd like to do that with your Brexit passport.
Adam:
[26:18] Shall I? Shall I walk across it? Shall I walk across San Marino?
Alun:
[26:21] Yeah.
Adam:
[26:21] Shall I do it for the show?
Alun:
[26:22] Yeah.
Adam:
[26:23] I'll see if I can do it. All right. Last one, mate.
Alun:
[26:25] I'm on three points and we've got one question to play for. Is this for all the marbles?
Adam:
[26:30] Drum roll, please. Question number six. In Italian history, which of these two events happened first? A. The first written mention of pizza or B. The construction of the leaning Tower of Pisa began. Which one of those two happened first in Italian history? The first written mention of pizza or the very beginning of the Leaning Tower of Pisa's construction? It's a good question.
Alun:
[27:06] It's a good question. It's a good question. I'm proud of you for that.
Adam:
[27:10] Thank you. I threw that in last minute at about eight o'clock this morning.
Alun:
[27:14] I'd need to know some more information to feel any kind of confident because there's just so many unknowns, isn't there? I don't really know what century the Leaning Tower of Pisa was built in.
Adam:
[27:27] You got no idea.
Alun:
[27:28] It's more modern it's not super ancient though is it.
Adam:
[27:32] No no it's not i think if it was super ancient it would have already fallen over by now.
Alun:
[27:36] Yeah and pizza i reckon they described because you're not talking about it by name either is oh it's a pizza.
Adam:
[27:46] You're not talking about that.
Alun:
[27:48] You're talking about people describing.
Adam:
[27:52] Bread the word the first written mention of the word pizza to describe, not the modern day neapolitan changes tomato and all that margarita and all that sort of stuff, but um you've been to georgia as well somewhere i know you're very passionate about and the cuisine yeah and a lot of the food there could be a precursor to some italian stuff so i'm Yeah.
Alun:
[28:14] And the pizza as well, you know, so it's very, very important that you said that because I think that a description of a pizza would predate it's a pizza.
Adam:
[28:27] Mm hmm. that said yeah i mean there have been mentions of things that are pizza like for a very long time.
Alun:
[28:36] I imagine so mate dating back to maybe even before we had language.
Adam:
[28:43] You go what hieroglyphics or you know even like a cave drawing someone's drawn or even if you interpret it in the.
Alun:
[28:51] Right way you think i know what they were talking about.
Adam:
[28:56] There's a buffalo there's a man in a loincloth with a spear and he's eating a pizza with a knife and fork um.
Alun:
[29:05] This is my feeling mate.
Adam:
[29:07] Go on.
Alun:
[29:09] I think pizza in the modern sense, is not even, I don't think they'd have even called it that. I don't even know where pizza comes from. It feels like something that might, it might've been completely co-opted and like taken, like one of those things. I recently learned that curry, even from India, do you know what I mean? It's a word that white people used to call curry curry because of the word curry, which is maybe a type of curry from the South of India. when i learned that i was it made me feel sick, so i wonder if pizza's something like that mate i don't even know if it's an italian word or if maybe when you know might be something else so i'm gonna say the leaning tower of pizza of pizza i'm gonna try and get half a point that way so you think that.
Adam:
[30:04] They began construction of the leaning.
Alun:
[30:07] Tower of pizza before the first.
Adam:
[30:10] Written documentation of the word pizza to describe a pizza.
Alun:
[30:14] Because i don't know the word pizza i have not it might be really modern i wouldn't be surprised to learn that the word pizza comes from the 70s.
Adam:
[30:24] Okay that would be cool that would be cool i.
Alun:
[30:26] Like you know i mean i don't even know what pizza so i'm aware, that there's a dish which is pizza that's been around for a long time i don't know what that was called pizza might be a modern thing whereas i know that the leaning tower of, it's been around unless there's a relationship between pizza and pizza that i'm not aware of, oh because you don't know where.
Adam:
[30:51] Pizza was invented in the way that we sort of see it today or at least the precursor.
Alun:
[30:55] To could it have been.
Adam:
[30:58] In fact who knows who.
Alun:
[31:00] Knows I do know because pizza and pizza um, I think the logical quizzer in me wants to say, I think the Leaning Tower of Pisa predates the word pizza, but the concept of pizza obviously predates Pisa. But I'll go with the Leaning Tower of and be prepared to be wrong.
Adam:
[31:23] I'm afraid it was pizza, mate. Yeah.
Alun:
[31:27] Give me the dates on that.
Adam:
[31:29] So pizza was first documented in 1997 ce common era in gator which is an italian city just north of naples 1997, yeah 997 ce 176, years before construction began of the tower which was in 1173.
Alun:
[31:50] Hold on did you say 1997 you meant 997.
Adam:
[31:55] Yeah i don't know which one i said you said 99 okay then no let me do that again, I'm sorry to tell you, mate, it is pizza. Pizza was first documented in 997 CE, so that's Common Era, in Gaeta, which is a city just north of Naples, 176 years before construction of the tower began in 1173. Can you believe it?
Alun:
[32:22] I mean, they're really close from a historical perspective. Those are next to each other, aren't they?
Adam:
[32:29] And geographically. It's only up the road, isn't it?
Alun:
[32:33] Okay much closer than i thought and if anyone was listening to that thinking i'm an idiot maybe you're the idiot.
Adam:
[32:41] Your thought process your methodology to get there was correct because modern day pizza is actually a much more recent thing how we know it the neapolitan you know the tomato sauce with all that sort of stuff um tomatoes were were used actually when they were brought over from peru i believe.
Alun:
[32:57] From the.
Adam:
[32:58] From the new world and they were adopted by the italians and now they're bloody everywhere.
Alun:
[33:03] Okay well if you want to hear my heartfelt apology then you can come and listen to it in two places it's either in the patreon after the show or it will also be as a reel on instagram so if you want it for free, go over to the instagram check it out it'll be live when this episode is posted, or if you want to not be a cheapskate you can go and spend a little bit of cash over the patreon you can hear it as it's done live and we figure it out how's about that very nice to see you over in the Patreon. It's a show after a show that we're going to do right now. Thanks for listening.
Adam:
[33:35] Thanks ever so much, guys. We'll see you there. Bye-bye.
Alun:
[33:37] We'll see you there. Bye!
